Antispermatozoidna antitela
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LaFolie
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Antispermatozoidna antitela
Zdravo svima
Urolog nas je uputio na Torlak da radimo ASA test, kaze da su ogromne sanse da mm ima taj problem, obrizom na vec postojece autoimune probleme.
VTO nam je za 5 nedelja, aspiracija za mesec ipo dana. Koliko antispermatozoidna antitela mogu da ometaju ISCI?
Urolog nas je uputio na Torlak da radimo ASA test, kaze da su ogromne sanse da mm ima taj problem, obrizom na vec postojece autoimune probleme.
VTO nam je za 5 nedelja, aspiracija za mesec ipo dana. Koliko antispermatozoidna antitela mogu da ometaju ISCI?
LaFolie- Broj poruka : 3412
Datum upisa : 20.10.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
LaFolie, pitaj ti svoje dr iz klinike da li da to radiš uopšte.
ASA su bitna kod prirodmog začeća.
Za ICSI nema veze i da ih ima
ASA su bitna kod prirodmog začeća.
Za ICSI nema veze i da ih ima
Orline- Broj poruka : 11716
Godina : 52
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 05.02.2009
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
hvala Orli
Mi smo to vec odradili u Pasteru, ali dr kaze priznaje samo sa Torlaka
Rezultati iz pastera su nam super
Mi smo to vec odradili u Pasteru, ali dr kaze priznaje samo sa Torlaka
Rezultati iz pastera su nam super
LaFolie- Broj poruka : 3412
Datum upisa : 20.10.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Mislim, nema edit, pa da dopunim.
Ne kažem ja da možda to tovj suprug nema, ali terapija za ASA se na kraju svodi na IVF ili ICSI.
Ne kažem ja da možda to tovj suprug nema, ali terapija za ASA se na kraju svodi na IVF ili ICSI.
Orline- Broj poruka : 11716
Godina : 52
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 05.02.2009
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Nema na čemu
Orline- Broj poruka : 11716
Godina : 52
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 05.02.2009
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Evo neki tekst na engl, kad je već otvorena tema
sa www.ivfauthority.com
Anti-Sperm Antibodies: How Do They Affect Fertility and What Role Do They Play in IVF Outcome?
The presence of sperm antibodies reduces male fertility significantly, but does not usually prevent conception altogether. Rather, the effects are graduated; i.e., the larger the immunologic response (concentration of antibodies), the less likely it is that a pregnancy will occur. When the blood level rises above 40%, natural conception is highly unlikely to occur.
Like any other kind of antibody manufactured by the body, sperm antibodies are formed in response to antigens. These antigens are proteins, which appear on the outer sperm membranes as the young sperm cells develop within the male testes. In the man’s own body, his sperm are regarded as foreign invading proteins and as such would normally be targeted for attack. However, under normal conditions, direct contact between the man’s blood and sperm is prevented by a cellular structure in the testes called the blood/testis barrier. This barrier is formed by so-called, Sertoli cells, which abut very closely against each other, forming tight junctions that separate the developing sperm cells from the blood and prevent immunologic stimulation. However, the blood/ testis barrier can be broken by physical or chemical injury or by infection. When this barrier is breached, sperm antigens escape from their immunologically protected environment and come in direct contact with blood elements that launch an immunologic attack.
Once sperm and blood come in contact, whether in the male or female, specific antibodies are produced against them by specialized blood cells call T- and B-lymphocytes. The three main types of sperm antibodies produced are Immunoglobulin G (IgG), Immunoglobulin A (IgA) and Immunoglobulin M (IgM). These antibodies bind to the proteins (antigens) on the sperm’s head, midpiece or tail. The antibodies formed may be of the circulatory type (in the blood serum) or secretory type (in the tissue). This is important because high levels of antibodies in the blood serum do not invariably mean that the antibodies will find their way to the semen where they can affect the sperm. For example, the concentration of IgG is much lower in secretions of the reproductive tract than it is in the blood. Conversely, the local level of IgA is higher in the reproductive secretions than in the blood. This is an important point, which we will return to later.
Once sperm antibodies have formed, they can affect sperm in several different ways. Some antibodies will cause sperm to stick together or agglutinate. Agglutinated sperm clump together in dense masses and thus are unable to migrate through the cervix into the uterus. Other antibodies mark the sperm for attack by Natural killer (NK) cells of the body's immune system (ie; opsonizing antibodies).
Some antibodies cause reactions between the sperm membrane and the cervical mucus preventing the sperm from swimming through the cervix (i.e., immobilizing antibodies). Antibodies can also block the sperm's ability to bind to the zona pellucida of the egg, a prerequisite for fertilization (i.e., blocking antibodies).
Finally, there is recent evidence that the fertilized egg shares some of the same antigens that are found on the sperm. It is possible that sperm antibodies present in the mother can react with the early embryo, resulting in its destruction by phagocytic cells (ie; phagocytic antibodies).
There are a number of diagnostic tests available to detect the presence of sperm antibodies. These are performed by flow cytometry and the ELISA (enzyme-linked immunoabsorbent assay), the Franklin-Dukes sperm agglutination assay or the Immunobead Binding Test (IBT), to name a few. At SIRM, the indirect Immunobead Binding Test (IBT) is used to detect antibodies present in the blood serum, in cervical mucus or on the sperm surface.
In the male, IgA and IgG are found in the semen although there is controversy as to whether they originate locally (secreted by testicular cells) or cross over from the circulation. Antibodies of the IgM class are not found in semen.
Like the source of some antibodies, the question of the critical levels of sperm antibodies is also hotly debated among clinicians. There seems to be general agreement that blood levels above 30% by the IBT are associated with significant fertility problems.
Studies have shown that pregnancy is highly unlikely following natural intercourse or intrauterine insemination when either the woman or the man harbors significant antisperm antibodies.
While there have been isolated reports that administration of corticosteroids (eg; prednisone) will temporarily suppress antibody production, pregnancy rates are poor. Besides, corticosteroid therapy carries with it the risk of significant side effects, some of which (although infrequent) can be serious. As an example, in the man, spontaneous fractures (especially of the neck of the femur) have been reported in 2% of cases. I do not recommend this treatment.
In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) with Intracytoplasmic Sperm Injection (ICSI) is the best option for conception in the presence of significant antisperm antibodies. Here, each egg is injected with a single sperm, so whether or not there are antibodies attached to the outer surface of the sperm becomes irrelevant.. In fact, pregnancy and birth rates are the same as in cases where IVF is performed for reasons other than male factor infertility. IVF/ICSI success rates are also unaffected by the concentration of antisperm antibodies.
*Intrauterine insemination (IUI - sometimes referred to as artificial insemination) of processed sperm is contraindicated in cases of moderate or severe male immunologic infertility because it does NOT improve pregnancy rates over NO TREATMENT AT ALL.
sa www.ivfauthority.com
Anti-Sperm Antibodies: How Do They Affect Fertility and What Role Do They Play in IVF Outcome?
The presence of sperm antibodies reduces male fertility significantly, but does not usually prevent conception altogether. Rather, the effects are graduated; i.e., the larger the immunologic response (concentration of antibodies), the less likely it is that a pregnancy will occur. When the blood level rises above 40%, natural conception is highly unlikely to occur.
Like any other kind of antibody manufactured by the body, sperm antibodies are formed in response to antigens. These antigens are proteins, which appear on the outer sperm membranes as the young sperm cells develop within the male testes. In the man’s own body, his sperm are regarded as foreign invading proteins and as such would normally be targeted for attack. However, under normal conditions, direct contact between the man’s blood and sperm is prevented by a cellular structure in the testes called the blood/testis barrier. This barrier is formed by so-called, Sertoli cells, which abut very closely against each other, forming tight junctions that separate the developing sperm cells from the blood and prevent immunologic stimulation. However, the blood/ testis barrier can be broken by physical or chemical injury or by infection. When this barrier is breached, sperm antigens escape from their immunologically protected environment and come in direct contact with blood elements that launch an immunologic attack.
Once sperm and blood come in contact, whether in the male or female, specific antibodies are produced against them by specialized blood cells call T- and B-lymphocytes. The three main types of sperm antibodies produced are Immunoglobulin G (IgG), Immunoglobulin A (IgA) and Immunoglobulin M (IgM). These antibodies bind to the proteins (antigens) on the sperm’s head, midpiece or tail. The antibodies formed may be of the circulatory type (in the blood serum) or secretory type (in the tissue). This is important because high levels of antibodies in the blood serum do not invariably mean that the antibodies will find their way to the semen where they can affect the sperm. For example, the concentration of IgG is much lower in secretions of the reproductive tract than it is in the blood. Conversely, the local level of IgA is higher in the reproductive secretions than in the blood. This is an important point, which we will return to later.
Once sperm antibodies have formed, they can affect sperm in several different ways. Some antibodies will cause sperm to stick together or agglutinate. Agglutinated sperm clump together in dense masses and thus are unable to migrate through the cervix into the uterus. Other antibodies mark the sperm for attack by Natural killer (NK) cells of the body's immune system (ie; opsonizing antibodies).
Some antibodies cause reactions between the sperm membrane and the cervical mucus preventing the sperm from swimming through the cervix (i.e., immobilizing antibodies). Antibodies can also block the sperm's ability to bind to the zona pellucida of the egg, a prerequisite for fertilization (i.e., blocking antibodies).
Finally, there is recent evidence that the fertilized egg shares some of the same antigens that are found on the sperm. It is possible that sperm antibodies present in the mother can react with the early embryo, resulting in its destruction by phagocytic cells (ie; phagocytic antibodies).
There are a number of diagnostic tests available to detect the presence of sperm antibodies. These are performed by flow cytometry and the ELISA (enzyme-linked immunoabsorbent assay), the Franklin-Dukes sperm agglutination assay or the Immunobead Binding Test (IBT), to name a few. At SIRM, the indirect Immunobead Binding Test (IBT) is used to detect antibodies present in the blood serum, in cervical mucus or on the sperm surface.
In the male, IgA and IgG are found in the semen although there is controversy as to whether they originate locally (secreted by testicular cells) or cross over from the circulation. Antibodies of the IgM class are not found in semen.
Like the source of some antibodies, the question of the critical levels of sperm antibodies is also hotly debated among clinicians. There seems to be general agreement that blood levels above 30% by the IBT are associated with significant fertility problems.
Studies have shown that pregnancy is highly unlikely following natural intercourse or intrauterine insemination when either the woman or the man harbors significant antisperm antibodies.
While there have been isolated reports that administration of corticosteroids (eg; prednisone) will temporarily suppress antibody production, pregnancy rates are poor. Besides, corticosteroid therapy carries with it the risk of significant side effects, some of which (although infrequent) can be serious. As an example, in the man, spontaneous fractures (especially of the neck of the femur) have been reported in 2% of cases. I do not recommend this treatment.
In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) with Intracytoplasmic Sperm Injection (ICSI) is the best option for conception in the presence of significant antisperm antibodies. Here, each egg is injected with a single sperm, so whether or not there are antibodies attached to the outer surface of the sperm becomes irrelevant.. In fact, pregnancy and birth rates are the same as in cases where IVF is performed for reasons other than male factor infertility. IVF/ICSI success rates are also unaffected by the concentration of antisperm antibodies.
*Intrauterine insemination (IUI - sometimes referred to as artificial insemination) of processed sperm is contraindicated in cases of moderate or severe male immunologic infertility because it does NOT improve pregnancy rates over NO TREATMENT AT ALL.
Orline- Broj poruka : 11716
Godina : 52
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 05.02.2009
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
I ovo..zvanični medicinski sajt, ako koga interesuje.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/571266
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/571266
Orline- Broj poruka : 11716
Godina : 52
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 05.02.2009
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Stvarno mi nije jasno da vam je , i pored toga što zna da uskoro ulazite u postupak, tražio ASA...koji apsolutno nema značaja za VTO.
Sperma se iscentifugira i očisti od svega pre nekog od postupaka, bilo IVF ili ICSI.
Ne brini.
Sperma se iscentifugira i očisti od svega pre nekog od postupaka, bilo IVF ili ICSI.
Ne brini.
dr mali pariz- Broj poruka : 22885
Godina : 46
Location : mali pariz
Datum upisa : 29.01.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
malo sam se istripovala kao sta sad pred sam postupak ?!
Hvala
Hvala
LaFolie- Broj poruka : 3412
Datum upisa : 20.10.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Pa zar nisi rekla da si pred postupkom???
Koja je vajda od ASA sad-kad ne mislite prirodno, jer ulazite u VTO??
Koja je vajda od ASA sad-kad ne mislite prirodno, jer ulazite u VTO??
dr mali pariz- Broj poruka : 22885
Godina : 46
Location : mali pariz
Datum upisa : 29.01.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
da da, ja mu kazem da smo pred postupkom, samo jos da pocnem da se bockam, sta mi znaci da li imam 2 ili 3 miliona spermica, kad vec idemo na ISCI varijantu
Insistirao je na ASA zbog Hasimota, kao kad vec ima jednu autoimumu, vrlo moguce da ima i ASA :)
Otvorih temu da pitam, da ne bacam pare i da se nesto ne zezem ako mozda moze da skodi.. Sta znam :)
I onako cu da uvedem embargo na dzidzi midzi ako uspe
Insistirao je na ASA zbog Hasimota, kao kad vec ima jednu autoimumu, vrlo moguce da ima i ASA :)
Otvorih temu da pitam, da ne bacam pare i da se nesto ne zezem ako mozda moze da skodi.. Sta znam :)
I onako cu da uvedem embargo na dzidzi midzi ako uspe
LaFolie- Broj poruka : 3412
Datum upisa : 20.10.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
i meni su u Jevremovoj prije postupka pored hormona i btriseva tražili ASA i za mene i za supruga
sad kad sam ovo pročitala nije mi jasno zašto su to tražili
sad kad sam ovo pročitala nije mi jasno zašto su to tražili
lilly13- Broj poruka : 1504
Godina : 42
Location : Banja Luka
Datum upisa : 29.11.2010
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
I meni su to tražili u Jevremovoj, ali pre IUI, a nisam imala to odradjeno. Nisam se nešto puno ni raspitivala tada. Uradila u privatnom labu i to je to.
Orline- Broj poruka : 11716
Godina : 52
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 05.02.2009
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Na Torlaku se radi na uput i ne plaća se.Isto mislim da za VTO nema značaja da li postoje antitela,jedino možda što kod muškarca izazivaju aglutinaciju(slepljivanje),pa ako je od nekog značaja...
Nama su isto to tražili ,ali pre VTO ,dok smo se ispitivali i "lečili" od steriliteta.
Nama su isto to tražili ,ali pre VTO ,dok smo se ispitivali i "lečili" od steriliteta.
maza1972- Broj poruka : 2255
Godina : 51
Datum upisa : 23.04.2011
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Evo ja jutros zvala Torlak, cena je 2054 din za oboje, bez uputa. Zakazuje se i radi se samo utorkom. Uzima se krv od oboje i sperma.
Ja odlucila da radim to na svoju ruku, jer su mi svi ostali rezultati ok, a predlozeno je prvoda probamo sa stimulisanim ciklusima, pa iui, pa vto ako ne uspe. A ako imam at, cemu gutanje klomifena, folikulometrije i cuda. Onda lepo odmah u postupak za vto, pa sta nam bog da...
Ja odlucila da radim to na svoju ruku, jer su mi svi ostali rezultati ok, a predlozeno je prvoda probamo sa stimulisanim ciklusima, pa iui, pa vto ako ne uspe. A ako imam at, cemu gutanje klomifena, folikulometrije i cuda. Onda lepo odmah u postupak za vto, pa sta nam bog da...
Ema78- Broj poruka : 4233
Location : Beograd, Srbija
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Ja sam radila na Torlaku ASA isto na svoju ruku. Lekari i sestre koje rade na tom odeljenju su sjajni! Sa svima popričaju, odgovaraju na bezbroj pitanja, naročito u vezi imunologije, daju savete ako te nešto zanima... Tako da se spremi za odlazak, pogotovo ako voliš da zapitkuješ lekare
Posle mora da se ode po rezultate ponovo na Torlak, ne šalju ih na mejl, ali ti taman protumače sve što te zanima.
Posle mora da se ode po rezultate ponovo na Torlak, ne šalju ih na mejl, ali ti taman protumače sve što te zanima.
M.- Broj poruka : 317
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Mi smo radili ASA na Torlaku, na uput od doktora opšte prakse besplatno, bar sam za nešto iskoristila zdrastveno.
Svi su tamo jako ljubazni zakazuje se 7 dana pre uvek to rade utorkom pre podne negde od 8h.
Svi su tamo jako ljubazni zakazuje se 7 dana pre uvek to rade utorkom pre podne negde od 8h.
tetreb- Broj poruka : 671
Godina : 43
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 09.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Glupo pitanje, sta Torlak radi, sto ne radi Paster ili npr Konzilijum?
I jos gluplje,da li je moguce da ne salju rezultate mejlom? To mi je potpuno suludo, pogotovu za ljude koji nisu iz Beograda. Ili makar postom?
Znam da je INEP svojevremeno, na zahtev, slao postom, a vec godinama znaju za internet. Mada, cudim se sama sebi sto se cudim...
I jos gluplje,da li je moguce da ne salju rezultate mejlom? To mi je potpuno suludo, pogotovu za ljude koji nisu iz Beograda. Ili makar postom?
Znam da je INEP svojevremeno, na zahtev, slao postom, a vec godinama znaju za internet. Mada, cudim se sama sebi sto se cudim...
Ema78- Broj poruka : 4233
Location : Beograd, Srbija
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Mislim da su nama rekli da je Torlak najpouzdaniji,radilo se i u drugim labovima,ali se uvek negde provlačilo da je Torlakov nalaz najsigurniji.A za mail -neznam...
maza1972- Broj poruka : 2255
Godina : 51
Datum upisa : 23.04.2011
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Ema 78 draga Torlak radi MAR metodom koja je najpouzdanija ostali rade drugačije i ne dobiju tačan rez. dešavalo se da parovi odrade u priv. labovima i rez. bude negativan a na torlaku pokaze da antitela ipak postoje. I tebi i mm vde krv + uzorak koji da mm.
Mejlom ne šalju rez. samo poštom pitala ih čudno jeste ali tako
pozz
Mejlom ne šalju rez. samo poštom pitala ih čudno jeste ali tako
pozz
tetreb- Broj poruka : 671
Godina : 43
Location : Beograd
Datum upisa : 09.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Ma ok, al ja cu stvarno preci u narkomane, jer vadim krv svako malo, sve su mi ruke modre, sreca pa mogu da se nose dugi rukavi...zakazala sam vec kod njih...
Ema78- Broj poruka : 4233
Location : Beograd, Srbija
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Evo drage moje i mene... Danas su nam stigli rezultati, i mm je pozitivan na asa, ja ne...On ima 60 % slepljenih, i 100 % u krvi. Ono sto je cudno, sto ni jedan spermogram, a radili smo ih sigurno 5-6 nije pokazao nista, mislim da je samo na jednom bilo da ima nesto veci broj morfoloski ostecenih spermatozoida, u vratnom delu, ali to je vise bila napomena nego sto je bio nalaz.
U svakom slucaju, to je to, uzrok naseg steriliteta. Hvala bogu na ovom forumu, jer nam nikad niko nije ni pomenuo asa, ja sam to odradila na svoju ruku. Ko zna kako bismo prosli na iui ili vto tako da je dobro sto smo pre bilo kakve radikalnije odluke saznali.
Videcu kakve su nam mogucnosti, na Torlaku su mi rekli da pokusamo sa najnizim dozama pronizona, uz savet urologa. A promenila sam tri ginekologa, javila se endokrinologu, lekaru opste prakse...niko niko niko... ni privatno ni u dz...
Kako jednostavna metoda, mogli bi to da uvedu u neki protokol dijagnostike steriliteta pre nego sto zene posalju na laparoskopije, hsg i ostale invazivne metode.
U svakom slucaju, to je to, uzrok naseg steriliteta. Hvala bogu na ovom forumu, jer nam nikad niko nije ni pomenuo asa, ja sam to odradila na svoju ruku. Ko zna kako bismo prosli na iui ili vto tako da je dobro sto smo pre bilo kakve radikalnije odluke saznali.
Videcu kakve su nam mogucnosti, na Torlaku su mi rekli da pokusamo sa najnizim dozama pronizona, uz savet urologa. A promenila sam tri ginekologa, javila se endokrinologu, lekaru opste prakse...niko niko niko... ni privatno ni u dz...
Kako jednostavna metoda, mogli bi to da uvedu u neki protokol dijagnostike steriliteta pre nego sto zene posalju na laparoskopije, hsg i ostale invazivne metode.
Ema78- Broj poruka : 4233
Location : Beograd, Srbija
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Super da ste otkrili!
Kod vecine se to lako izleci pole npr. Mesec dana, uz pronizon i kontracepciju, i posle je sve reseno.
Inace, u spermogramu jedino moze da se vidi aglutinacija koja ukazuje na ASA, a često ni nje nema.
IUI bi vam pomogla jer se tokom pripreme spermatozoidi razlepljuju. Nije na odmet da probate ako ne bude bebe uskoro.
Mada, nadam se i drzim fige da je to to i da cete do jeseni da nas obradujete.
Kod vecine se to lako izleci pole npr. Mesec dana, uz pronizon i kontracepciju, i posle je sve reseno.
Inace, u spermogramu jedino moze da se vidi aglutinacija koja ukazuje na ASA, a često ni nje nema.
IUI bi vam pomogla jer se tokom pripreme spermatozoidi razlepljuju. Nije na odmet da probate ako ne bude bebe uskoro.
Mada, nadam se i drzim fige da je to to i da cete do jeseni da nas obradujete.
M.- Broj poruka : 317
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
Mi smo tipican primer gde je spermogram bio ok. Nekad malo bolji, nekad malo losiji, ali uglavnom ok. Eto, samo na jednom, kao fusnota je stajalo to u vezi sa morfologijom, ali ni reci o aglutinaciji...
Sad sam se cula sa svojim ginekologom, rekao mi je da ponovi mm spermogram,pa cemo krenuti u terapiju. Ja bih sto pre,pa da odemo na moreeeeee i da se tamo bacimo na
Inace, spermokultura je bez i jedne bakterije...al asa koliko hoces !!!
Sad sam se cula sa svojim ginekologom, rekao mi je da ponovi mm spermogram,pa cemo krenuti u terapiju. Ja bih sto pre,pa da odemo na moreeeeee i da se tamo bacimo na
Inace, spermokultura je bez i jedne bakterije...al asa koliko hoces !!!
Ema78- Broj poruka : 4233
Location : Beograd, Srbija
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
Re: Antispermatozoidna antitela
I da, M. hvala sto tako azurno odgovaras na postove i tacno znas sta da kazes da me malo podignes !!!
Ema78- Broj poruka : 4233
Location : Beograd, Srbija
Datum upisa : 23.04.2012
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